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two things, first of all, i actually think we're going to get a resolution to the fiscal cliff. i just think it's going to come after we go over. so that's not unlike -- >> we agree. >> the idea there is actually republicans can claim a tax decrease. that is you can take the rate down from 39.6% to 38% or 37%, something like that. the president gets what he wants, which is higher rates. the republicans can claim victory as well because they're lower than they would have been otherwise. >> tony, let's assume we do, in fact, go over the cliff. as both you and jerrod suggest that we likely will. the market will likely go down and go down hard. a new poll suggested if we do go over the cliff that republicans are going to be the ones who are going to be blamed. how will we deal with that with the market being held hostage by these negotiations which seemingly, at least in public, are going nowhere? >> first of all, i think the markets might be better to listen to me and jerrod rather than whoever is telling them this could absolutely get done and the republicans will cave and that's
two things, first of all, i actually think we're going to get a resolution to the fiscal cliff. i just think it's going to come after we go over. so that's not unlike -- >> we agree. >> the idea there is actually republicans can claim a tax decrease. that is you can take the rate down from 39.6% to 38% or 37%, something like that. the president gets what he wants, which is higher rates. the republicans can claim victory as well because they're lower than they would have been...
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the fiscal cliff. if we go off the cliff tax rates on dividends could go from 15% to more than 43%. companies are racing to beat the tax hikes by paying dividends before december 31st and some of the biggest beneficiaries, both insiders and ceos. mickey arison is getting $89 million from carnival giving him a potential tax savings. and larry elison is getting savings around $56 million. thomas frist at hca is getting around $350 million, saving him $100 million. and kkr and bain capital will get a big piece of the dividends. the king of all dividends is sheldon adelson who gets $1.2 billion from sands corp dividend and his tax savings alone could be $340 million. all shareholders benefit from dividends and many of the owners and ceos have recused themselves from the dividend votes, but these companies tend to have higher insider ownership. the average insider ownership of these dividenders is around 27%. it all shows that just the threat of higher taxes is causing companies and people to take next year's income today when they can. >> yeah. it's interesting. we were talking about th
the fiscal cliff. if we go off the cliff tax rates on dividends could go from 15% to more than 43%. companies are racing to beat the tax hikes by paying dividends before december 31st and some of the biggest beneficiaries, both insiders and ceos. mickey arison is getting $89 million from carnival giving him a potential tax savings. and larry elison is getting savings around $56 million. thomas frist at hca is getting around $350 million, saving him $100 million. and kkr and bain capital will...
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cliff, tax rates go up not just for the rich but for the middle class, for everyone, all those cuts in domestic spending and naths security spending, they go into effect. people aren't going to be happy about that, and the president will be able to say, look, i begged them, i repeatedly said 98% of the american public, they wouldn't get a tax increase if we just took them out of the equation, let's pass legislation extending the bush tax cuts for everyone earning under $250,000 a year. they didn't do it. so, you know, he'll have some leverage on that in terms of the politics because politically, you know, the polls all are very consistent. the election results are pretty consistent. the american public is ready for a modest increase in taxes for the upper 2% of taxpayers. having said that, there's another issue that's coming up in february or march and that's raising the debt ceiling once again. the republicans have a lot of leverage on that right now because the white house, the administration will desperately want to raise that debt ceiling so the u.s. doesn't go into default. tha
cliff, tax rates go up not just for the rich but for the middle class, for everyone, all those cuts in domestic spending and naths security spending, they go into effect. people aren't going to be happy about that, and the president will be able to say, look, i begged them, i repeatedly said 98% of the american public, they wouldn't get a tax increase if we just took them out of the equation, let's pass legislation extending the bush tax cuts for everyone earning under $250,000 a year. they...
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i think without the fiscal cliff, we will do all right. lori: tax rates or than likely are going up, at least for one class. you have this slow growth. at the same time, think of the federal reserve keeping rates low for so long. we could be in serious trouble. >> on the inflation front, we are not very worried for the next year or two. it is out there, but not the next year or two. they will phase in whatever tax increase they put in. it will not hit next year. it will phase in over a couple years. that is the smart way to do it. lori: thank you for your time. >> thank you. you bet. melissa: i would like to be optimistic. date -- details of the probe have not been released. over 80 people have already been questioned about the more than $5 billion in trading losses last day. peter barnes has the exquisite details right now. peter: we first learned about this probe in september through news media reports. the number of people questioned suggest that the scope of this thing is broad and could lead to more political problems in washington fo
i think without the fiscal cliff, we will do all right. lori: tax rates or than likely are going up, at least for one class. you have this slow growth. at the same time, think of the federal reserve keeping rates low for so long. we could be in serious trouble. >> on the inflation front, we are not very worried for the next year or two. it is out there, but not the next year or two. they will phase in whatever tax increase they put in. it will not hit next year. it will phase in over a...
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cliff is avoided. unlikely, but a reflection of voter frustration as both sides dig in. the white house demanding higher tax rates for the top two tax brackets and republicans refusing. after refusing the proposal last week, house republicans offered an outline for $2.2 trillion in deficit reduction mostly through spending cuts, and while president obama would not answer questions about the counterproposal -- >> no deal better than a bad deal, sir? >> thank you. >> reporter: -- a senior white house official assailed it as a step backwards saying if republicans do not agree to some higher rates for wealthier taxpayers, the nation will go over the cliff and the american people will hold the republicans responsible. wall street remains optimistic a deal will be struck, so the lack of progress has not yet resulted in a market plunge, but some economists estimate that because of the uncertainty posed by the fiscal cliff, at least 200,000 fewer jobs have been created this year. and, diane, the official deadl
cliff is avoided. unlikely, but a reflection of voter frustration as both sides dig in. the white house demanding higher tax rates for the top two tax brackets and republicans refusing. after refusing the proposal last week, house republicans offered an outline for $2.2 trillion in deficit reduction mostly through spending cuts, and while president obama would not answer questions about the counterproposal -- >> no deal better than a bad deal, sir? >> thank you. >> reporter:...
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house republicans today did offer a counter proposal on the fiscal cliff. their plan, $2.2 trillion deficit savings over the next decade, but it does not include higher tax rates for the wealthy. the house speaker john boehner calls it a credible plan that deserves serious consideration by the white house. guess what? the white house released a statement tonight saying the plan is nothing new, that it lowers rates for the wealthy and sticks the middle class with the bill. so to borrow a phrase, we're nowhere. period. david walker is president and ceo of comeback america initiative. he's made it his mission to promote fiscal responsibility. he joins us along with cnn political analyst, david gergen. david walker, let me start with you. the house republicans put forward their counter proposal. speaker boehner says it's credible and the white house should consider it. is it credible or is it more of what you have called the irresponsible unethical immoral behavior of all the politicians here in washington? >> i think both sides are now putting things on the ta
house republicans today did offer a counter proposal on the fiscal cliff. their plan, $2.2 trillion deficit savings over the next decade, but it does not include higher tax rates for the wealthy. the house speaker john boehner calls it a credible plan that deserves serious consideration by the white house. guess what? the white house released a statement tonight saying the plan is nothing new, that it lowers rates for the wealthy and sticks the middle class with the bill. so to borrow a phrase,...
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cliff standoff. he put his foot down on what is negotiable and what is not. >> we have to say the rates on the top 2% go up. and we're not going to get a deal without it. understand the reason for that. it's not me being stubborn. it's not me being partisan. it's just a matter of math. i'm happy to entertain other ideas the republicans may present, but we are not going to cut our way to prosperity or cut our way out of the deficit problem we have. >> so, are we on the verge of something big, something that could really change our politics? joining me now, senator barbara boxer, democrat from california and whip of the senate. thank you for being on the show. >> i love being on your show. thank you. >> if the gop agrees to tax increases, how important might that be in terms of showing they actually are capable of working with the president? >> you know, the way they raised the question, if they agree to tax increases, they claim they're willing to do these loop-hole closers but the difference here is
cliff standoff. he put his foot down on what is negotiable and what is not. >> we have to say the rates on the top 2% go up. and we're not going to get a deal without it. understand the reason for that. it's not me being stubborn. it's not me being partisan. it's just a matter of math. i'm happy to entertain other ideas the republicans may present, but we are not going to cut our way to prosperity or cut our way out of the deficit problem we have. >> so, are we on the verge of...